Looks like there is not template mapping file setup on the wiki:

In T197972#4309309, @Esanders wrote:

Looks like there is not template mapping file setup on the wiki:

That's true, but unrelated. (This is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/VisualEditor/Citation_tool, btw)

For instance, sw doesn't have that message either, but it opens the template, not the reference dialog.

It *should* open the bare template regardless of whether there is a MediaWiki:Visualeditor-cite-tool-definition.json defined.

I just tried this on he wiki, same bug. It's plausibly a RTL bug!

To replicate on he wiki, try inserting "citation" template manually, and then re-open it - it will open the reference dialog. But on sd wiki, depsite having the MediaWiki:Visualeditor-cite-tool-definition.json not defined, it opens the template.

(It looks a little weird without the icon but still works.)

This is a bug in the visual editor then, right?

In T197972#4317115, @Deskana wrote:

This is a bug in the visual editor then, right?

Kind of. The behaviour described happens on wikis where citoid is disabled, and on RTL wikis where citoid is enabled but the visual editor tool is disabled, with different behaviour on LTR wikis where citoid is enabled, and inconsistent behaviour on RTL wikis where citoid and the citation tool are enabled.

So I guess it's a question of whether that counts as a bug in VE. Citoid behaves inconsistently on sites where it is enabled; it recognises non-registered templates on LTR wikis. But I think that's the better behaviour overall.

So it's a question of whether this is behaviour we want to change outside of citoid for all references, which is to always open the template instead of the reference dialog where there is only one template inside the reference, or just fix the citoid bug so it behaves consistently.

At any rate at worst it creates an extra click for users. But I do think the consistent behaviour across all wikis, with or without citoid enabled, is preferable.

See also T71498: VisualEditor: Please add an easy way to get from a citation template to the basic (manual) reference dialog and T67593: VisualEditor: Can't cut or copy citation template in Reference dialog, for reasons why someone might want to get to the basic dialog (which isn't currently possible at most wikis, if the ref contents are purely a template).

In T197972#4323435, @Whatamidoing-WMF wrote:

See also T71498: VisualEditor: Please add an easy way to get from a citation template to the basic (manual) reference dialog and T67593: VisualEditor: Can't cut or copy citation template in Reference dialog, for reasons why someone might want to get to the basic dialog (which isn't currently possible at most wikis, if the ref contents are purely a template).

Thanks @Whatamidoing-WMF . I met someone at Celtic Knot Conference who wanted to insert a template along side a reference and couldn't do it in VE (for showing that it incorporates public domain text, i.e. like {{CDC}}). I pointed out that they could do it using the wikitext editor but they said the people they were working with weren't quite capable of that :).

I think maybe the behaviour should be that it only shows the open template right after insertion. And then afterwards we open the reference dialog instead. That way if people want to add extra template to the ref, or copy the template, there's a workflow in VE that allows that.

Or maybe add a button "open reference dialog" at least.

In T197972#4491017, @Mvolz wrote:

In T197972#4323435, @Whatamidoing-WMF wrote:

See also T71498: VisualEditor: Please add an easy way to get from a citation template to the basic (manual) reference dialog and T67593: VisualEditor: Can't cut or copy citation template in Reference dialog, for reasons why someone might want to get to the basic dialog (which isn't currently possible at most wikis, if the ref contents are purely a template).

Thanks @Whatamidoing-WMF . I met someone at Celtic Knot Conference who wanted to insert a template along side a reference and couldn't do it in VE (for showing that it incorporates public domain text, i.e. like {{CDC}}). I pointed out that they could do it using the wikitext editor but they said the people they were working with weren't quite capable of that :).

I think maybe the behaviour should be that it only shows the open template right after insertion. And then afterwards we open the reference dialog instead. That way if people want to add extra template to the ref, or copy the template, there's a workflow in VE that allows that.

Or maybe add a button "open reference dialog" at least.

@iamjessklein thoughts on this?