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Localisation fallback between Slovak and Czech
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Description

Discussions on the Slovak portal and the Czech portal and a usertalkpage on translatewiki.net suggested reciprocal fallbacks between Czech and Slovak localisations, instead of offering English as fallback.

@Nemo_bis submitted a change, @Raymond merged it as b321f48d, it has been deployed as a part of the MediaWiki train on Wikimedia projects the Thursday 2016-08-18.

@Danny_B expressed concerns Wikimedia communities haven't been consulted. This concern should probably be extended: other Slovak and Czech MediaWiki users input should be taken in consideration too, for example asking opinion to mediawiki users list. At the same time, some namespace localisation improvement are needed.

Notifications sent

Event Timeline

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptAug 21 2016, 3:12 PM

Change 305836 had a related patch set uploaded (by Danny B.):
Revert "Set Czech (cs) and Slovak (sk) as reciprocal fallbacks"

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/305836

Dereckson added a comment.EditedAug 21 2016, 3:19 PM

Plan

We need to manage the incident and too hasty merge, especially the lack of regular process followed (no technical news notice for example).

The DannyB's concerns, if shared by other users, are serious concerns.

So I offer the following plan:

  1. Notify sk. and cs. Wikimedia communities, and mediawiki-l this Sunday
  2. Gather feedback
  3. Organize between Monday and Wednesday an office hour to discuss further the issue to take quickly a decision to keep in core or revert the change pending further discussion
  4. If reverted, backport the revert to 1.28.0-wmf.16 branch at the next SWAT and deploy it on the Wikimedia cluster
  5. Pursue discussion
Dereckson updated the task description. (Show Details)Aug 21 2016, 5:22 PM
Dereckson updated the task description. (Show Details)Aug 21 2016, 5:46 PM
Nemo_bis closed this task as Resolved.Aug 21 2016, 7:15 PM
Nemo_bis claimed this task.
Nemo_bis added a project: User-notice.

Thanks for the additional notifications. For now I'm marking this resolved, as the fallback was already established according to the best information available.

If possible it would be nice to continue the discussion on translatewiki.net, as not all translators and people interested in i18n are active on Phabricator. Of course it's particularly helpful to provide comments which bring additional information and research on what's best for our users.

Nemo_bis triaged this task as Normal priority.Aug 21 2016, 7:15 PM
Dereckson reopened this task as Open.Aug 21 2016, 9:35 PM

So, no, this discussion is open, with a revert patch to process.

Dereckson removed Nemo_bis as the assignee of this task.Aug 21 2016, 9:35 PM
Quiddity updated the task description. (Show Details)Aug 22 2016, 4:18 PM
Dereckson updated the task description. (Show Details)Aug 22 2016, 7:12 PM
Johan added a subscriber: Johan.EditedAug 24 2016, 10:12 PM

Side note:

(no technical news notice for example)

I don't think we should rely on Tech News for something like this. Tech News is a good way to spread information that's relevant to a lot of different wikis, e.g. it affects all Wikimedia wikis or an entire project, or Wikidata or Commons which other wikis rely on, or concerns something new that might be interesting for other wikis to be aware of or try out as it's available for them or might be coming to them later.

If we're talking about fallback options for two specific languages, there are far more effective ways of reaching out to those particular communities, e.g. posting directly on the relevant Village Pumps, which will reach more local editors than a notice in Tech News will, at the same time as we're not e.g. taking up the time of our volunteer translators by having them translate it into Albanian and Portuguese.

Dereckson added a comment.EditedAug 29 2016, 3:17 PM

Some point about the current situation.

Mailing list
8 days later, there is no reply related on the topic or objection on the mailing list.

Wikimedia projects
So far, @Danny_B seems to be the only contributor from a cs/sk Wikimedia wiki to have explicitly expressed the desire to revert the change, without any support.

We quickly addressed a namespace localisation issue in sk.wikipedia.

No notification has been sent to the Wikimedia projects (something I hoped Danny_B would be to support their request to revert the change), excepted by @LacoR on sk.wikipedia (where there isn't any reply).

TranslateWiki

On the other hand, on the TranslateWiki discussion, we can read a consensus to support the fallback (with, again, only @Danny_B opposition).

@Dvorapa says for example:

In my opinion the fallback to sk/cs is much better than default fallback to en (e.g. I´m the only one in my large family, who speaks English, but everybody understands Slovak).

Other software

According @Dvorapa, a fallback already existed in pywikibot.


As such, the Sunday 21 plan, beginning by if [these concerns about the fallback are] shared by other users didn't get further than step 2.

Nemo_bis closed this task as Resolved.Aug 30 2016, 2:15 PM
Nemo_bis claimed this task.

Thanks for the analysis, closing accordingly.

Nikerabbit updated the task description. (Show Details)Nov 1 2016, 9:33 AM