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Minerva talk pages show no discussions if certain elements are present
Open, Stalled, MediumPublic

Description

When using the mobile web ui, talk pages may appear blank, and make it appear to the reader that there is no content, unless they click on "Read as a wiki page". Even if a reader uses "Add discussion" their new discussion can disappear.

Example page:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Xaosflux&oldid=932159485

From duplicate T251377:
In mobile view, talk pages are set to the mobile talk page mode by defualt, and we have to click the bottom button to switch to the wikitext mode. It hides an introduction to Wikipedia, which is inserted by bots. It causes some problems and misunderstanding about the project in Korean Wikipedia. Can we change the setting? In other words, can we set the wikitext mode as the default?

if we can't, we have to develop an option for it

Event Timeline

I just looked at my own enwiki talk page, is is saying there are NO discussions at all (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Xaosflux) is this the same problem being discussed here? In order to see anything a reader has to click on "Read as wiki page".

Different problem. The issue there is that the mobile talk pages are optimised for pages with headings and sections. If the content is wrapped inside a div it cannot be parsed so unexpected things like this happen. In this situation we should eiither default to read as wiki page or display some kind of notice to explain. The page attempts to make talk pages more consistent for new users so possibly the latter.

Also section collapsing is not working on wiki page mode. Confirmed by me and @1997kB for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Oshwah. Same thing is happening on my talk page on English Wikipedia and other pages.

Also section collapsing is not working on wiki page mode. Confirmed by me and @1997kB for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Oshwah. Same thing is happening on my talk page on English Wikipedia and other pages.

Section collapsing doesn't work if you wrap headings in a div using a template like User:Oshwah/Templates/TalkpageMainTemplate. This is the case for all pages and always has been and we won't add it. If we see a template the mobile formatter steps back and says "i dont know what this page is doing so i'm not gonna do anything to its HTML structure." History has shown it's too risky not to do that (as we might break rendering) So if you want collapsing the only solution is to not try to wrap wikitext in divs etc.

We obviously are not handling this situation right though, but please don't expect collapsed sections in the solution - that's not gonna happen.

Also section collapsing is not working on wiki page mode. Confirmed by me and @1997kB for https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Oshwah. Same thing is happening on my talk page on English Wikipedia and other pages.

Section collapsing doesn't work if you wrap headings in a div using a template like User:Oshwah/Templates/TalkpageMainTemplate. This is the case for all pages and always has been and we won't add it. If we see a template the mobile formatter steps back and says "i dont know what this page is doing so i'm not gonna do anything to its HTML structure." History has shown it's too risky not to do that (as we might break rendering) So if you want collapsing the only solution is to not try to wrap wikitext in divs etc.

We obviously are not handling this situation right though, but please don't expect collapsed sections in the solution - that's not gonna happen.

Then perhaps the best course of option IMO would be to create a preference to let user opt-in to this new design. Newbies can get confused because of this new design. Even I got shocked for a moment seeing that my talk page is empty.

So as soon as a page comes up that is not able to be handled, perhaps it should default to the "read as wiki" view?

Newbies can get confused because of this new design.

The design is basically the same as before - we've always listed only section headings on talk pages - however before we used a deprecated API that got sections differently and now we use the page itself so a few new changes.

the best course of option IMO would be to create a preference

The only preference here that I can see technically feasible would be default to read as wiki page which might be useful for some editors, however...

So as soon as a page comes up that is not able to be handled, perhaps it should default to the "read as wiki" view?

That's one possible option I'm suggesting and seems like the most technically feasible, but my product owner is out and no deploys until the new year so this will have to wait then.

No rush, just wanted to get this on the board for review, thanks for the udpates!

Jdlrobson renamed this task from mobile web talk pages show no discussions if certain elements are present to Minerva talk pages show no discussions if certain elements are present.Jan 17 2020, 11:14 PM
Jdlrobson removed a project: Mobile-Web-Settings.

The preference option would be more appropriate solution here as it gives editors control on what they want: For instance from Special:diff/947743057:

A few months ago, a new version of the talk pages on mobile showed up. It is glitchy, restrictive, and harder to use than normal. To get rid of it, one can click a button on the bottom of the page to “read as wiki page.”
Is there any way to make this option stay on ? I don’t like this format to view and add to talk pages at all.

So as soon as a page comes up that is not able to be handled, perhaps it should default to the "read as wiki" view?

That's one possible option I'm suggesting and seems like the most technically feasible, but my product owner is out and no deploys until the new year so this will have to wait then.

Some people just don't like the new design and I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for the older way. If this is pursued, then those who don't want it at all must live with it on the pages the software can understand. That'd be mildly annoying. But what would be even more annoying is the inconsistency that this would introduce. One talk page showing normally, another talk page behaving otherwise, and no immediate explanation of what is happening except may be after someone writes a bug report and it's explained to them.

Any progress on this? I really dislike the new mobile talk view and want an option to turn it off.

Jdlrobson changed the task status from Open to Stalled.Mar 26 2021, 10:19 PM

Stalled per T278590