Math could support commutative diagrams
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	Christian1985
	Mar 26 2011, 6:54 PM

Description

At this German Wikipedia discussion, I started a thread where several people have agreed with the suggestion.

I proposed that the *XY* package be loaded in the LaTeX preamble used by Wikipedia. Information about this LaTeX package and how to load it can be found here.

This package allows users to create commutative diagrams directly in Wikitext, eliminating the need to generate and upload separate image files. It would save editors time and make it easier for others to modify or adjust existing diagrams.

Examples of diagrams borrowed from https://www.guntherkrauss.de/computer/tex/diagramme.html :

(these are basic shapes and therefore ineligible for copyright)

Details

Reference: bz28258

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Status	Subtype	Assigned	Task
Declined		Physikerwelt	T237516 Update to MathJax 3
Open	Feature	None	T30258 Math could support commutative diagrams
Resolved		Physikerwelt	T74240 Remove PNG only rendering mode
Resolved		• mobrovac	T71702 Support PNG output for mathoid
Declined		Physikerwelt	T78056 Storing PNG images retrieved from mathoid
Declined		Physikerwelt	T100514 use binary data rather than text data for math_mathml, math_html and math_svg fields
Resolved		Physikerwelt	T94379 Travis PNG looks different from vagrant png

Event Timeline

• bzimport raised the priority of this task from to Medium.Nov 21 2014, 11:34 PM

• bzimport added projects: Future-Release, Math.

• bzimport set Reference to bz28258.

• bzimport added a subscriber: Unknown Object (MLST).

Christian1985 created this task.Mar 26 2011, 6:54 PM

Does it have at least English documentation?

Don't change the categorisation of this bug, please. Before messing with extension setup on Wikimedia, code that supports it should be written first.

(In reply to comment #1)

Does it have at least English documentation?

Oh, I'm sorry, at the page http://www.tug.org/applications/Xy-pic/ and in this http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/generic/diagrams/xypic/xy/doc/xyguide.pdf pdf you can find information in English.

Christian

There is a XyJax extension for MathJax (but not integrated in the official distribution) and the next version of LaTeXML will probably have some support for graphic packages. So that might be future options to consider.

He7d3r awarded a token.Nov 24 2014, 1:09 PM

Kulla awarded a token.Nov 24 2014, 8:25 PM

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Physikerwelt claimed this task.Jan 15 2016, 10:17 AM

Physikerwelt raised the priority of this task from Medium to High.

Physikerwelt set Security to None.

Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptJan 15 2016, 10:17 AM

Is AMScd an option?
Note, that this is still blocked by T74240. So please vote for this bug, to show that there is an actual community interest to move forward and not stick with the status quo.

One could implement that with a new <cd> tag similar to the new <ce> tag proposed in T98306.

• Phabricator_maintenance removed a project: Future-Release.Aug 12 2016, 4:54 PM

• Phabricator_maintenance removed a subscriber: • wikibugs-l-list.

Physikerwelt lowered the priority of this task from High to Medium.Jun 11 2017, 12:48 PM

Physikerwelt closed subtask T74240: Remove PNG only rendering mode as Resolved.May 29 2018, 2:01 PM

Physikerwelt removed Physikerwelt as the assignee of this task.Dec 2 2018, 5:05 PM

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Pkra moved this task from Inbox to New TeX macro proposals on the Math board.Dec 7 2018, 10:54 AM

Aklapper added a project: Math-Macro-Proposals.Jun 24 2020, 5:37 AM

Aklapper moved this task from New TeX macro proposals to Inbox on the Math board.Jun 24 2020, 5:37 AM

MathJax 3 has http://docs.mathjax.org/en/latest/input/tex/extensions/amsCd.html

Physikerwelt added a parent task: T237516: Update to MathJax 3.Jul 8 2020, 11:53 AM

Note that this is already supported by EOM. See

https://encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/Help:Fancy_diagram

and

https://encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/Talk:EoM:This_project#Commutative_diagrams_in_TeX.2FLaTeX

(needs client-side javascript enabled)

We can use this page to create test cases for this feature.

Just like when creating the feature request, I still consider this function important today.
I think the source code of the diagramms in EOM are very complicated, but I would love to be able to use such a feature in wikipedia.
Can I support in any way ?

Best Regards
Christian

Christian1985 awarded a token.Oct 17 2020, 7:42 PM

Aklapper changed the subtype of this task from "Task" to "Feature Request".Feb 4 2022, 12:24 PM

Hello,

as descibed in https://docs.mathjax.org/en/v2.7-latest/tex.html in section AMScd it sounds very easy to activate commutative diagramms in native MathMl. MAybe someone can have a look at it by time.

For a simple web page the source

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>TeX and MathML in one file</title>
<script type="text/x-mathjax-config">
  MathJax.Hub.Config({ TeX: { extensions: ["AMScd.js"] }});
</script>
<script src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/mathjax/2.7.3/MathJax.js?config=TeX-MML-AM_CHTML"></script>
</head>
<body>
\(\begin{CD}
A @>a>> B\\
@VVbV @VVcV\\
C @>d>> D
\end{CD}\) <br />

</body>
</html>

is a working example.

Oh I see something similar was suggested before. I will have a look at it next days.

Christian1985 renamed this task from texvc should support commutative diagrams via XY-packet to texvc should support commutative diagrams.Dec 26 2024, 10:14 PM

Hello,

I think the XY package is no longer really used today. Today the tikz-cd package seems to be modern. Maybe this can be integrated somehow to make it easier to create commutative diagrams? The documentation can be found at https://ctan.org/pkg/tikz-cd .

But also the CD environment is an option.
With MathJax the CD environment already works a bit:

Christian1985 renamed this task from texvc should support commutative diagrams to Wiki software should support commutative diagrams.Dec 26 2024, 10:29 PM

@Christian1985 can you attach

? I can not see the image.

We need an algorithm that transforms commutative diagrams into something the browser can display (HTML including SVG MATHML etc). Once we have that, we can estimate how much effort it will take to implement it. However, that preliminary step needs to be done before we can start.

Hi @Physikerwelt ,

I reatteched the same picture:

. There you can see the cd environment with MathJax rendering. It is created from https://de.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Intbar#Kommutative_Diagramme .

Does it cost much effort to create a new pseudo tag <commdiag> (or so) for commutative diagramms? The result of the tag would be always rendered by the server as a svg. And between the pseudo tags you would write latex code of the cd or tikz environment? In this case the browser has to do nothing. And I think it would be okay to display a commutative diagramm only as a svg. A commutative diagramm would not be used inline. Commutative diagramms are always so big that you would write it to a new line.

Christian1985 attached a referenced file: F58065139: image.png. (Show Details)Dec 28 2024, 12:19 PM

Thank you for attaching the file.

Does it cost much effort to create a new pseudo tag <commdiag> (or so) for commutative diagramms? The result of the tag would be always rendered by the server as a svg. And between the pseudo tags you would write latex code of the cd or tikz environment? In this case the browser has to do nothing. And I think it would be okay to display a commutative diagramm only as a svg. A commutative diagramm would not be used inline. Commutative diagramms are always so big that you would write it to a new line.

I think instead of commdiag we could whitelist \begin{CD} and define some grammar rules that are allowed within that environment. The second step is to define what exactly the server should do. This is where the effort goes. Maybe we can start with a minimal example.

However, if you allow the CD environment in the Math pseudo-tag environment, then you have to think about whether the diagram is displayed correctly as SVG, using native MathMl and with MathJax. If you would introduce a new pseudo tag, you could concentrate on one technology. Of course, this has other disadvantages.

I just saw that TemMl.org supports the CD environment.

Bugreporter2 renamed this task from Wiki software should support commutative diagrams to Math could support commutative diagrams.Tue, Feb 10, 2:09 AM

Bugreporter2 updated the task description. (Show Details)

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	Tue, Feb 10, 2:10 AM

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	Dec 28 2024, 12:18 PM

Math could support commutative diagramsOpen, MediumPublicFeatureActions

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Math could support commutative diagrams
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