Thanks for filing, triaging.

I'll take a look at this. @Harej, I've scheduled a meeting on Monday next week.

Met with @Harej. We talked about what we could do generally and he should come back with a more specific request.

@Harej No hurry from our side, take whatever time that makes sense for you, but I just wanted to check in and make sure we hadn't missed any communication from your side?

You have not missed anything. I will update this task when there is a more precisely scoped project.

I talked to @Harej about what he had in mind for this work. It reminded me of the work I was doing with @Keegan to describe product communication practices around ORES year (or two?) ago. Maybe some of that would would be valuable for getting started here.

In T217232#5076032, @Harej wrote:

You have not missed anything. I will update this task when there is a more precisely scoped project.

Hey! Since it's been a while, unless you have news for us, maybe this can be temporarily closed and reopened when the need arises.

Hey folks. I'm not sure what progress @Harej had made on this, but I'm taking over now.

Generally, we struggle with making sure that communities who receive ORES deployments know and understand that the relevant tools are available. Our own analysis (ping @Groceryheist) suggests that many different communities had no idea ORES was available. This suggests that there some breakdown in our communication strategy. I'd like to consult with someone from CR to identify and test some best practices for communicating before and after these software deployments.

Thanks, @Halfak. Can you reassess the task description and update it? (As the new FY has started this may need to be reevaluated and likely reassigned.) In particular we'll need details around your deadline. Thank you!

\o/ @Groceryheist is back from travels on July 19th. I'll set up a kickoff meeting after that. So, probably early next week.

In T217232#5341746, @Halfak wrote:

\o/ @Groceryheist is back from travels on July 19th. I'll set up a kickoff meeting after that. So, probably early next week.

@Halfak we'll be working with @mcruzWMF on this, so please make sure to invite her to the kickoff meeting.

OK sounds good.

I just applied the template that @mcruzWMF linked me to the description of the task. Let me know if you have any questions.

It just occurred to me that this work might align with @Rfarrand's work on setting up smaller, geographically distributed technical events. I wonder if there's a good way that we might both support those events and build our relationships with a variety of technical contributors who might be interested in ORES.

In T217232#5366443, @Halfak wrote:

It just occurred to me that this work might align with @Rfarrand's work on setting up smaller, geographically distributed technical events. I wonder if there's a good way that we might both support those events and build our relationships with a variety of technical contributors who might be interested in ORES.

This is an interesting idea, @Halfak. Can you please provide more information, so we can understand your reasoning better? These are the specific questions I have:

• How are technical contributors involved in deploying ORES on a Wikimedia project? (connected to Goal: more implementations of ORES)
• Can technical contributors benefit from ORES? How? (connected to Target audience, Motivation)
• What would you like technical contributors to do when they learn about ORES? I see in the task description that one of the KPI you set is More ORES-powered tools. Is there something else that you are thinking about? (connected to Call to action)

I like this idea a lot. After we get more clarity on this, we can regroup about what incorporating this audience group means for this outreach campaign. One possible outcome is that we hold 2 different campaigns (because the target audience, motivation, and call to action are essentially different). Looking forward to your input!

How are technical contributors involved in deploying ORES on a Wikimedia project? (connected to Goal: more implementations of ORES)

Technical contributors use ORES in the bots, gadgets, and tools they build. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/ORES/Applications and note that most uses of ORES are in volunteer developed tools. It's usually technical contributors (or contributors with technical skills) who we end up working with first in a project. This might be an artifact of how information travels. But I think it's also because the local technologists often perform a dual role of building tech and shepherding other tech deployments.

Can technical contributors benefit from ORES? How? (connected to Target audience, Motivation)

I think this was mostly answered in my post above. ORES primary users are developers and secondarily the end-users of the tools they build. It turns out some dev-users are product teams at the Foundation while others are technical volunteers. ORES is usually a hit at hackathons because it gives people new opportunities to UIs for important work in Wikipedia.

What would you like technical contributors to do when they learn about ORES? I see in the task description that one of the KPI you set is More ORES-powered tools. Is there something else that you are thinking about? (connected to Call to action)

I would like technical contributors to do a few things:

• Creatively imagine useful scenarios for quality measurement, vandalism detection, topic routing, etc. and either build new tools or incorporate ORES predictions into the tools they have already.
• Discuss the potential of ORES with their peers. Help people understand what predictions are good for and where they can't replace human judgment.
• Give us expert feedback. We want feedback from any ORES end-user, but technical contributors are more able to write more clear bug reports and feature requests. E.g. T227153: On en.wikipedia, ref tags inserted by the shortened footnote template, {{sfn}}, are not counted in ORES features

We certainly are building out a program for pre hackathon smaller technical events. Probably to pilot with the 2020 hackthon (Albania) or 2020 wikimania (Thailand).
If any ideas and pre-existing connections for small in person events arise around this effort in either of those regions around those time frames I would LOVE to talk more in depth about specifics.

Hey @Halfak , thanks for the details on how and why to target technical contributors. I think that entails a different outreach campaign because the target audience and the call to action (or expected engagement) are different.

I met with @Tgr today and I was able to flesh out the distribution plan for the original outreach campaign (targetting patrollers). Please take a look and let me know what you think: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l5XsCm-kOZ5V135n52UeGQWH3Mh8yEXyKM4lVY8hG-Y/edit#heading=h.5p3qgix00thr

This topic was also brought up by attendees of the Wikimania 2019 "Building Technical Capacity in Smaller Wikis" session.

I commented on the linked task - while there may be points of contact etc., I wouldn't want the task at hand to lose its focus on a specific team's needs. CommRel may not be able to commit resources to grand plans at this time.

Thank you @mcruzWMF! I missed this in the storm of emails around Wikimania. I'll be reviewing now.

I just left a couple of notes. The plan generally looks good to me. My biggest question is a budget one.

@Halfak I am surprised again to hear that bugetary topics are an issue. They are frequently raised as a reason for not getting things done or not accomplished in a timely manner, but the WMF is currently very over funded by a large surplus.

On another note: As an end user of ORES (but definitely not IT or AI savvy), I would be happy to comment on how ORES is functioning for example at NPP and AfC on en.Wiki. We volunteers are not sufficiently privileged to participate at Wikimania conferences when it matters, but I will certainly be available in Bangkok - I live here.

@Kudpung: Please note that meta-level discussions on general priorities (or budgets within an organization) are off-topic here. Please bring them up in better suited places. Thanks.

@Halfak what's left to do for my team here? TY!

Hey folks! Sorry to not chime in sooner. We're blocked right now on product support from Audiences. In the meantime, if you see my question from Aug 26th, that is still unanswered.

In T217232#5827161, @Halfak wrote:

Hey folks! Sorry to not chime in sooner. We're blocked right now on product support from Audiences. In the meantime, if you see my question from Aug 26th, that is still unanswered.

I hadn't understood that you referred to questions /in the document/.
This said, the plan was made by someone who's no longer employed here, so we don't have any insights into the reasoning etc.
Given what you say about product support, does it make sense to have you and Keegan revisit that plan /now/ to repurpose/tweak it?
Thanks.

Indeed. I think a good next step is to get a rep from Audiences (who have promised us some product support) and Keegan into a meeting so that we can review and re-hash. I'll keep that on my todo list to set up after allhands.

In T217232#5827639, @Halfak wrote:

a good next step is to get a rep from Audiences (who have promised us some product support) and Keegan into a meeting so that we can review and re-hash. I'll keep that on my todo list to set up after allhands.

Anyone knows if this happened? (Asking as tasks shouldn't be stalled for too long.)

@Johan please update, thanks.

In conversation with the team and will update later.

Yep I'll close it. Thanks for marking.

The underlying goal of disseminating knowledge of ORES among the on-wiki technical community is still valid and much needed, though (assuming ORES is still going to be supported in the future).

Yeah totally agree. Even more important as we deprecate ORES (very long term) to have clear messaging and discussion.