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Redesign empty state for talk pages that have not been created
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Description

This parent task represents the work with implementing new empty/non-created states for talk pages, across namespaces.

Background

Currently, all links to non-existent talk pages behave like regular red links. This means that whenever someone clicks on a link to a talk page that has not yet been created, they will land in the full-page editor. [i][ii]

Problem

People who are new to using talk pages are likely to be confused by this experience considering:

  • The current experiences does not offer people guidance about what they ought to use talk pages for
  • The current experience does not offer people an explicit and clear way of starting a new conversation
ru.wikien.wiki

Open questions

  • How should links to not-yet-created "Talk" / "Discussion" appear? Currently, they are red links.
  • What should happen in cases where an empty talk page is "attached" to a user/project/template/article page that too has not yet been created?

Empty states by namespace

NamespaceTicket
User talk (3)T274831
Your own talk pageT277329
All other talk (1, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 101, 119, 711, 829)T274832

Event Timeline

ppelberg renamed this task from Implement empty state for talk pages that have not been created to Redesign empty state for talk pages that have not been created.May 15 2020, 6:12 PM

If we wanted to give people the option to use the new discussion tool on empty pages, we would need to intercept red links. We would likely still want to give people the option to use the full page editor.

Note that on English Wikipedia entry talk pages are quite rare, as even pages without any discussions still have various talk page header templates. It would be interesting to look at the stats for this in other wikis before prioritising.

3% of non-redirect mainspace pages on enwiki (176k out of 6.2M) have no corresponding talk pages. I think smaller wikis (especially wikis without article assessment) will tend to have higher percentage of mainspace pages without talks, for example it’s about two thirds on Bavarian Wikipedia and over 99% on Hungarian Wikibooks.

Please note that this doesn’t take any article definition into account, so disambiguation pages, stubs etc. all count, only (hard) redirects are exempted. But probably this better fits the purpose of this quick research than any stronger article criterion, as people may want to talk about disambiguation pages and stubs as well.

3% of non-redirect mainspace pages on enwiki (176k out of 6.2M) have no corresponding talk pages.

@Tacsipacsi, before seeing the point you raised above, I hadn't considered how redirect pages might impact the data we gathered in T272657...I'm glad you decided to say something.

I did a quick check in T272657#6831797 and it appears to me that including/excluding redirects has a nominal impact on these numbers.

it appears to me that including/excluding redirects has a nominal impact on these numbers.

As far as I remember, I included this criterion because it had significant impact on some wiki—but I don’t remember on which. :( Although it’s obvious on what wikis may be a significant impact: on those that have a significant number of mainspace (or whatever namespace) redirects compared to the non-redirect pages in that namespace. But maybe I remember wrong, and there’s no significant impact indeed.

How should links to not-yet-created "Talk" / "Discussion" appear? Currently, they are red links.

It seems to me that they should also have a red link. This is an indicator for experienced users that there are no important discussions on this page. Moreover, we have a popular script that recolor links (to gray) to created discussion pages that contain only templates. Check hate.js on this page: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Самые_используемые_скрипты/Данные.