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No notification when someone mentions you on a page and their signature is in a template
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Description

Author: romaine.wiki

Description:
We noticed on nl-wiki that when someone mentions a user (with link to userpage) that the user who is mentioned doesn't get a notification.

Please enable this.


Version: unspecified
Severity: major

Details

Reference
bz65910

Event Timeline

bzimport raised the priority of this task from to High.Nov 22 2014, 3:15 AM
bzimport added a project: Notifications.
bzimport set Reference to bz65910.
bzimport added a subscriber: Unknown Object (MLST).
bzimport created this task.May 29 2014, 7:59 PM

romaine.wiki wrote:

Further testing makes us conclude that if a signature is in a template, no notification is given, but when a manual signature is added, a notification is given and received.

romaine.wiki wrote:

It seems that this problem also occurs in talk namespaces.

No notification:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg_gebruiker%3ARomaine&diff=41391316&oldid=41375665

This problem should be fixed by resolving bug 64778 (remove the "signature requirement" for triggering a Mention Notification).
I'll ask around, to see if there's anything I can nudge to move this forward (I'm not sure how complicated that fix will be).

By the way, using a template as part of a signature was forbidden by delevoper in the past (but I have no permalink), see also the english wikipedia for some extra text and hints about that topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures#Transclusion_of_templates_.28or_other_pages.29

romaine.wiki wrote:

@Umherirrender: To reply on that English page, the first one is not an issue, has never been any issue, at least not on various projects else than en-wiki. The second is a non-argument (certainly for wiki's other than en-wiki), we have thousands of templates that are much used. And the third, we do not have the intention to test the software, but in the past we are told "not to worry about performance, if something is breaking developers would make it impossible". Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_worry_about_performance

Template signatures have been used for least 8 years, if performance is really an issue all the communities should have been informed, which is not the case. Or more likely: made impossible to have template signatures.

When using template syntax in the signature field on Special:Preferences the {{}} is replaced on save by {{subst:}} (or the localized form), so you have to use a second template to trick mediawiki here. You are using https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:Romaine/H for that.

romaine.wiki wrote:

If it is really not allowed to use a template signature, I certainly would have expected that all templates are substed, not just the entered one.

(My apologies for continuing this slightly off-topic discussion, within the bug. I just wanted to add a quick explanation, in case it wasn't already known by everyone, or in case there are variant conditions at other non-Enwiki projects which is where I'm most-familiar. :)

(In reply to Romaine from comment #8)

If it is really not allowed to use a template signature, I certainly would
have expected that all templates are substed, not just the entered one.

As I understand it, at least on Enwiki, the potential-problem is that signature template-pages are not usually very widely watchlisted, and hence the many pages that someone's signature appears on, might easily be vandalized via that obscure subpage. They're also generally not semi-protected.
Some users might have many thousands more transclusions than the ~6,000 pages that your signature-page is in. ( http://tools.wmflabs.org/templatecount/index.php?lang=nl&namespace=2&name=Romaine%2FHandtekening#bottom ) Or they might appear only on a few scattered and obscure talkpages, and not get seen, *by an editor who can track down the problem*, for many months/years.

As for why secondary-templates in signatures are not automagically subst:d, I don't know (am not a dev), but it might be worth opening a new bug for it, or changing this bug to specifically address that issue, or something similar? I'll leave that up to better minds.
</tangent>

On-topic: I'm continuing to poke at bug 64778, and will treat that as the main bug for updates. HTH.

Legoktm moved this task from Backlog to Needs plan on the Notifications board.Jul 6 2015, 8:25 AM
Restricted Application added a project: Collaboration-Team-Triage. · View Herald TranscriptJul 6 2015, 8:25 AM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptJul 19 2015, 2:16 PM
XXN added a subscriber: XXN.Jul 28 2017, 11:26 PM

I just saw a post where I was mentioned but I didn't received a notification.
I was about to create a new bug for it, but found this one - I suppose this is the same issue or not really?

In T67910#3483151, @XXN wrote:

I just saw a post where I was mentioned but I didn't received a notification.
I was about to create a new bug for it, but found this one - I suppose this is the same issue or not really?

I'm not sure, that diff looks like it should have caused a notification.

Yes, this is the same issue. The signature clearly isn't the default signature Wikimedia would produce. (The (please notify!) and<small>Sorry for my bad English :)</small> sections give it away)

Quiddity added a subscriber: Framawiki.EditedJul 29 2017, 8:24 PM

But that signature isn't coming from a template, is it?
(Custom signatures are fine - the only problem (for this original bug) is when someone has their custom signature using a template. I.e. framawiki has no signature subpage, but Romaine does.)
@Framawiki Hi! Are you using any complex wikitext or perhaps a subst'd template in your custom signature code at Wikidata? (see d:Special:Preferences to check)
If not, then I think this is a new bug, as the diff XXN links to should have triggered a notification.

@Framawiki Hi! Are you using any complex wikitext or perhaps a subst'd template in your custom signature code at Wikidata? (see d:Special:Preferences to check)
If not, then I think this is a new bug, as the diff XXN links to should have triggered a notification.

Here is the content if my "custom signature" field:

[[User:Framawiki|Framawiki (please notify !)]] ([[User talk:Framawiki|<span class="signature-talk">{{SUBST:int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) <small>Sorry for my bad English :)</small>

I suppose that mediawiki added the SUBST itself.

XXN added a comment.Jul 31 2017, 11:19 AM

Just found around T118458: Echo did not trigger mention notification when user was linked; the problem reported by me above might be an instance of that bug also.

BTW, in a very short time I notice one more missing notification - for this post. But since the user used 5 tildes instead of 4, the signature was incomplete, and this time the problem must be caused by T66778: Echo: Remove the signature-requirement for Mention notifications.

I don't know why some of the things that are reported here happen, but looking at the code in DiscussionParser.php, it seems pretty clear to me that Echo will not recognize a signature if it doesn't contain a link to the user's user page.

Restricted Application added a project: Growth-Team. · View Herald TranscriptSep 4 2018, 2:47 PM
kostajh added a subscriber: kostajh.

We discussed in triage this week, we don't have time to prioritize working on this in the short-to-medium term.

Ayack added a subscriber: Ayack.Dec 10 2018, 6:11 PM

This is a serious issue! I've just realized that for years I mentionned people who never knew that I pinged them! Just because I slightly changed the default signature. The worst is that I checked "Failed mention" in my preferences to be sure that I would be notified if there was an issue with my notifications, and I was never notified of an error!

I can't imagine how many notifications are not delivered due to this bug, and how many people are thinking having notified someone who in fact wasn't!

If you can't resolve it soon, please, at least inform all the users having a custom signature that their notifications are never sent!

Quiddity edited subscribers, added: Trizek-WMF; removed: wikibugs-l-list.Dec 10 2018, 7:41 PM
Isarra added a subscriber: Isarra.Jan 13 2019, 5:38 PM

This is especially a major issue on many third-party projects like uncyclopedia where 90% of users may use templates for their signatures. (Some of them don't even use normal timestamps, but that seems more like a personal problem, so nevermind them.) A bit unfortunate when this functionality was the main incentive for enabling the extension in the first place.

This is a serious issue! I've just realized that for years I mentionned people who never knew that I pinged them! Just because I slightly changed the default signature. The worst is that I checked "Failed mention" in my preferences to be sure that I would be notified if there was an issue with my notifications, and I was never notified of an error!
I can't imagine how many notifications are not delivered due to this bug, and how many people are thinking having notified someone who in fact wasn't!

I just thought the extension was specifically broken for my user account (because I never got any notifications) but worked for everyone else because they actually did get notifications for my messages. But apparently mine were basically the only notifications most anyone was getting, and it took me months to figure out what was going on. This silent failure is extremely poor UX.