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Represent editions as interwiki links on Wikisource
Open, Needs TriagePublic

Description

There are works on Wikisource that have several editions/translations for the same language, for instance "The Raven"
https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q22726
Each edition is linked with the properties "edition" (p747) and "edition or translation of" (p629). Each one of the items contain a sitelink to a different wikisource, for that reason the links don´t show up on Wikisource.
It is necessary to collect all the sitelinks linked from items in the star-like structure and represent the links on the sidebar for each one of the editions. The "edit" link would have a different effect linking to the item representing the work.

Details

Related Gerrit Patches:
mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase : master[WIP] Adds an hook for adding extra language links

Related Objects

Event Timeline

Restricted Application added subscribers: StudiesWorld, Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptFeb 26 2016, 11:10 AM
Gymel added a subscriber: Gymel.Feb 26 2016, 1:49 PM
Ankry added a subscriber: Ankry.Mar 3 2016, 11:29 AM

A similar problem exists on Incubator. Several languages may have articles on identical topics and should have links to each other.

Indeed, not the same. Only similar. I wonder if one technique could remedy both - a "possibly" guts feeling at best. :-)

Thanks for pointing me to the task.

Gymel added a comment.Mar 13 2016, 2:01 PM

Just to give the issue another twist, here is something in between the original issue (different editions) and that mentioned by Purodha:

For Tóbiás Coberus https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q868104 exists one "person" article in hungarian Wikipedia, and two transcribed articles from biographic encyclopedias in German wikisource: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21235363 (ADB article) and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23020668 (BLKÖ article). The items are in Wikidata related by properties P921 and inversely by P1343 (indirectly with qualifier!).

The task would be to provide the Wikisource view of one of these biography articles with links to (at least) the "corresponding" Wikipedia articles, since the articles themselves are just biography entries in nature, so quite comparable.

Billinghurst added a subscriber: Billinghurst.EditedMar 13 2016, 10:21 PM

Just to give the issue another twist, here is something in between the original issue (different editions) and that mentioned by Purodha:
For Tóbiás Coberus https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q868104 exists one "person" article in hungarian Wikipedia, and two transcribed articles from biographic encyclopedias in German wikisource: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q21235363 (ADB article) and https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q23020668 (BLKÖ article). The items are in Wikidata related by properties P921 and inversely by P1343 (indirectly with qualifier!).
The task would be to provide the Wikisource view of one of these biography articles with links to (at least) the "corresponding" Wikipedia articles, since the articles themselves are just biography entries in nature, so quite comparable.

Definitely not the "Described by source" and "Main subject" relationship. They are associated though no direct relationship between separately published works about a subject.

This ticket is about the direct relationship between a work and its editions or its translations (interwiki), and then hopefully leading to the second generation relationship between an edition in one language, and a translation in another (as an interlanguage link).

What I was aiming at: There seems to be a general problem underlying this concrete issue: Wikidata items connected to some WS page typically (?) have exactly one sitelink (namely to the WS page in question) but still there are ~closely related~ items "in other languages" (*and* also the same language) which could be presented. So a rather general mechanism could be thought of involving traversing up and back down a ~suitable~ WD property and its inverse - but what property that might be should be under control of the Wikisource article - e.g. "edition or translation of" in the case of poems and "main subject" in the case of encyclopedic articles. I'm quite sure we'll find even more examples on closer investigation.

@Gymel What you are describing is related to a topic/subject, not so much a work. Each article would be articulated on the Q-item as "described by source" and links can be provided to each currently. For example for an author, you could call each "described by ..." by use of $1 to $9, etc. in a template to call back each value listed in the link.

As I see your commentary it relates to a work about a subject related to another work about the same subject. I don't see that if I have an article on a person in the (English) Dictionary of National Biography that the DNB article has a direct relationship/interest in a Russian encyclopaedia about the same person, and vice versa.

If that is not what you mean, then I am not getting the gist of your argument.

@Billinghurst: I'm trying to take the point of view of WS and *not* that of WD. So when WD has a /clean/ modeling of the situation (separating items for persons from that for articles about that person) then there will be not only translations but a much bigger class of WS pages where the corresponding WD item will ever have exactly one sitelink but WS pages would like to link to ~corresponding~ (related, comparable) pages in other languages.

From a WS user's perspective an ADB article about a person on de:WS and a hu:WP article on the same person (and the BLKÖ article accidentally in the same language) are just encyclopedic articles about the same person he might wish to consult, I don't see a fundamental difference from the translated poem situation, it's all about being able to /compare/ the current resource with some other.

srishakatux added a subscriber: srishakatux.

this is already part of the community wishlist survey!

Restricted Application added a subscriber: PokestarFan. · View Herald TranscriptJul 25 2017, 11:11 PM
Restricted Application removed a subscriber: Liuxinyu970226. · View Herald TranscriptJan 20 2019, 1:32 PM
Tpt reopened this task as Open.Jan 20 2019, 1:33 PM
Tpt added a subscriber: Tpt.

I should close the other task, sorry

JAnD added a subscriber: JAnD.May 26 2019, 5:24 PM
MJL added a subscriber: MJL.Jul 5 2019, 6:52 PM

Change 553866 had a related patch set uploaded (by Tpt; owner: Tpt):
[mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] [WIP] Adds an hook for adding extra language links

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/553866

Uzume added a subscriber: Uzume.Thu, Jan 9, 10:17 PM

I am not sure this is a good idea or not (its seems like there maybe a few proposals) and I am against implementing this in Wikidata beyond how it already implements things (multiple linked records with one sitelink per wiki per item). That said, I see no issue with some wiki client like a Wikisource one implementing such a thing locally, e.g., perhaps traversing through linked Wikidata items via Scribunto Lua modules, to find all the sitelinks of all edition items of a specific work item they are all linked to, or other similar arrangements it wants to.

I recommend this Task be interpreted as a request for the development of a local Wikidata-based Lua Module to accomplish its goals.

Whether is a good idea to collect and spam all such links into the toolbar a la Interwiki links (or in some other arrangement), I leave as a problem for individual wikis' user base and local solution designers/developers to decide and resolve.

beleg_tal added a comment.EditedSun, Jan 12, 1:57 AM

On the contrary, the interwiki solution baked into MediaWiki makes assumptions about Wikidata's interwiki links that make sense on some wikis (like Wikipedia) and not on other wikis (like Wikisource). The interwiki system needs to be flexible enough to accommodate different data models used on Wikidata for its various interwiki links.

This is especially true if the WMF intends to introduce other wikis in the future, where we cannot predict how they will integrate with Wikidata at this point.

If Wikidata aspires to be anything more than a very expensive and overblown index for Wikipedia, this is a core functionality that it needs to be able to support.

Uzume added a comment.Mon, Jan 13, 4:41 PM

@beleg_tal: I agree with your statements, especially "interwiki system needs to be flexible enough to accommodate different data models", however, I do not think this is an inherently Wikidata issue.

For example: Wikitionary has a very different model where it wants to cover every Lexeme in every language on every one of their language-based wikis in their project. It makes sense based on what they are trying to accomplish and as such they basically do not really need nor want to use Wikidata sitelinks in their Interwiki links since for any specify Lexeme they want to link to every one of their wikis regardless if they constitute the same logical "thing" from a Wikidata perspective. This is not somethings that Wikidata or its sitelinks should attempt to consider solving.

The point is Wikidata sitelinks are not a one tool for all MWF Interwiki link needs and as such we should not try to solve all such issues there. Wikidata sitelinks are great for solving links to MWF wikis where they represent a single "thing" from Wikidata's point of view. If that does not work for some MWF projects, those issues should be solved by their respective projects and not necessarily at Wikidata (though Wikidata can of course entertain changes that benefit all or many of the projects but they are not a solution for everything).