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Be able to use the auto-cite tool to insert a citation template outside of a reference
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Apr 10 2015, 2:50 PM
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Nov 14 2015, 9:55 AM
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F2962585: Снимок01.JPG
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F2962587: Снимок02.JPG
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Sometimes I want to add a bibliographic citation, without enclosing it in <ref> tags, such as in a ==Further reading== section. Please add a button or something that will have Citoid insert the contents of the citation straight onto the page.

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Mvolz added a subscriber: Mooeypoo.

Interesting. It's doable, of course, but, I'm not sure that adding another button is the best UI. This should go through design and product to decide how to best approach it.

It's "doable" now: Open the citation as a reference (double-click), cut the template, paste it into the editor.

But… I'm not sure we should encourage this.

I agree another toolbar button is not the way to go.

One possibility is to create extra functionality for the template inserter instead- for instance, parse the json message, extract list of templates citoid theoretically supports, and then if a user selects one of those templates, offer a ref-free citoid template inserter. Or possibly extend it to add "citoid- inserted template" to the available list, or add a button somewhere inside the template selection dialog.

I would put something like that as fairly low priority though.

This comment has been deleted.
Jdforrester-WMF moved this task from Backlog to Extension on the Citoid board.
Jdforrester-WMF renamed this task from Get Citoid's citation template outside of ref tags to Be able to use the auto-cite tool to insert a citation template outside of a reference.Jun 30 2015, 3:13 PM
Jdforrester-WMF lowered the priority of this task from Low to Lowest.
Jdforrester-WMF added a project: Design.

I would think that including this functionality IS important: its a low hanging fruit for experts and librarians to contribute to Wikipedia: part of the reason that we get resistance to expert contribution is the time factor, and the academic burden and professional burden that most experts place on their writing. If we told them: "we have a really simple tool that allows you to bring your research bibliography into Wikipedia for other researchers", I think we would get a lot more minor contributions from experts . Having an option to "add unreferenced citations" , also makes a lot of sense when big Wikipedias need more expert help and some projects, like German, don't require in-line citations, but focus on the relationship between sources and the text as a whole (more like traditional Humanist encyclopedias). The Wikipedia Library has had really good reception of from archivists and librarians, partially because we are telling them to do what they do best: create bibliographies.

It's "doable" now: Open the citation as a reference (double-click), cut the template, paste it into the editor.

But… I'm not sure we should encourage this.

It is not quite obvious! Not everyone knows about double-clicked. I did not know about double-clicking until I read your post. When I open the page and there is a reference - I click on it and click on the button "edit".

Снимок03.JPG (292×1 px, 67 KB)

Снимок04.JPG (470×1 px, 74 KB)

But when I add a new reference to the article, when you click on it and click on the edit to open the template editing window.
Снимок01.JPG (269×1 px, 53 KB)

Снимок02.JPG (430×1 px, 58 KB)

Now double-click to the newly inserted link opens a form with fields. Form with the whole link text opens only for links that were in the article prior to editing.

I have also been unable to follow the instructions to get a citation out of the ref tags. I see the same windows as Sunpriat.

The only way I can do it now is to switch to source editing.

Mvolz raised the priority of this task from Lowest to Medium.Aug 26 2016, 12:43 PM
Mvolz added subscribers: jeblad, Zppix, ManosHacker, StudiesWorld.

Raising this to normal as we've had at least 3 separately filed reports of this issue.

Any ideas how to actually design this so it's not too confusing?

This comment was removed by Mvolz.

Does this double clicking on the reference and pasting the template outside help you?

It is very long. If I've inderstood what you mean, you have to

  1. Open a draft page on VE
  2. Generate the citation
  3. Double click on the footnote call
  4. Copy what you need

It is very long and complicated.
Plus it is not working for me and has been reported as a regression T134183: (regression) Enable every citation to be editable as basic citation: on step 4, template opens with all fields filled. Impossible to copy. :/

Ah, you're right, the double click thing doesn't work anymore :(.

The solution can be as simple as trying to detect if we are trying to put the citation just after a bullet. A bullet does not ever need a referencce after itself. As we only need this functionality for bulleted sections for bibliography, this seems to me as an optimal solution. - We can also give it as a help hint and that will be all needed.

+1 to @ManosHacker 's strategy on this: the only real use cases are in bulleted or in number lists.

I've tried to use bad faith to find counter-examples, but I failed. :)

I think that will work. Also, if you put a citation after a bullet, but decide that you want it in ref tags, then you should be able to copy and paste the citation template into a Basic Reference, which will convert it into a normal ref.

The more I work with VE and the new wikitext editor the more I get used to tools like citoid. For the time being, I switch from VE for creating a citation to wikitext for removing the ref tags in the Further Reading section.
I think the suggestion by @ManosHacker would be a good idea to start with.
I suggest to raise the priority of the task because it is really important to expert authors, as @Sadads has already pointed out.
I have opened a discussion on German Wikipedia.

In fact this has already been secretly implemented on July 2017 and it worked then (I checked Greek and English Wikipedias) but now is withdrawn.

In fact this has already been secretly implemented on July 2017 and it worked then (I checked Greek and English Wikipedias) but now is withdrawn.

Why did this happen? Was there anything wrong with it?

Is there a reason "adding the citation without refs after a bullet" solution cannot be implemented nowdays?

Sorry about a "me, too" comment, but I'm just kind of excited about the circumstances: A few days ago I met a few people for a small "Art+Feminism"-style event, and showed them how to edit articles; it was the first time I did such a thing in over a year, because the COVID pandemic here is slowing down, and it was hugely refreshing.

Anyway, several of them wanted to add nicely formatted links in the style of "cite web", but to the body text and not to the footnotes. This is particularly relevant in Wikipedia articles about artists, which often have longish lists of links to exhibitions and online review articles. I had to tell them repeatedly to add the links as footnotes, and then remove the <ref> links manually in source mode. It's inconvenient, but still better than adding {{cite web}} templates and filling the fields by hand one by one.

So, there's still demand for it in 2021.

Why are we waiting to implement this easy solution to have inline citations after a bullet point? I can't motivate this missing functionality to participants of Wikipedia writing sessions...

Esanders added subscribers: Edu, matmarex.
Esanders subscribed.

@Edu on T304100:

Hello, Portuguese Wikinews enabled the VisualEditor last year, added COinS in the references and enabled the "Cite" feature. However, Wikinews does not use "<ref>" for sources. Is it possible to change the VisualEditor so that it doesn't include "<ref>" when using "Cite"?

Local discussions: 1, 2