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Subtitle translation with Translate extension
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Description

Type of activity: unconference
Main topic: Possibly slightly related to Handling wiki content beyond plaintext

The problem

Translating video clips is currently done as plain text. This has all the disadvantages listed in T30021.

The Translate extension can probably provide an easier interface for translators, hopefully leading to increased number of translations, but it will require some integration work.

Some open questions:

  1. Do translators often tweak the timestamps?
  2. Do translators often combine/split/add/delete units compared to the source language?
  3. Do translators watch the video while or after translating?

Which will influence the answers to:

  1. Is it enough to create a message group from the strings and allow only translation of those?
  2. Do we need to integrate video player to the translation tool?
  3. Should we really be thinking of dedicated interface rather than extending Special:Translate...
  4. ...but would starting with Special:Translate be better than waiting for that?
  5. How would changes be handled? Like translatable pages, or like file based message groups? Or completely manually?
  6. Would solution that treats them as translatable pages make sense?

Expected outcome

  • Better understanding of how subtitles are translated (ideally before Summit, unless people who would use this attend the Summit)
  • Narrowing down implementation options based on above as well how to best interact with the video player, content handler etc.
  • Better understanding how this relates to any other work related to videos (if any) such as structured

Current status of the discussion

  • Starting the exploration

Details

Reference
bz42495

Event Timeline

bzimport raised the priority of this task from to Medium.Nov 22 2014, 1:02 AM
bzimport added projects: TimedMediaHandler, I18n.
bzimport set Reference to bz42495.
Amire80 created this task.Nov 28 2012, 10:02 AM

Agree, this would be super useful.

(Do we have a bug somewhere for deploying Translate extension on Wikimedia Commons? This would be (partially) related.)

(In reply to comment #1)

(Do we have a bug somewhere for deploying Translate extension on Wikimedia
Commons? This would be (partially) related.)

If you believe there's consensus for that, you should file it.

For reference, translate extension is now on commons, so that is no longer blocking this.

(In reply to comment #3)

For reference, translate extension is now on commons, so that is no longer
blocking this.

That's never been a blocker, just an incidental observation.
For now we're stuck at whether TMH should be adapted to Translate (i.e. learn to use subpages) or Translate to TMH (learning to use some new format to be invented). See bug 42790.

Hi everyone,

I just filled these captions in:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/TimedText:What_is_Wikipedia_Zero%3F.webm.en.srt
and I'd like to be able to mark these captions for translation, like how WP & Meta pages themselves could be translated

Steinsplitter moved this task from Incoming to Backlog on the Commons board.Mar 11 2015, 12:55 PM
Jdforrester-WMF moved this task from Untriaged to Backlog on the Multimedia board.Sep 4 2015, 6:39 PM
Restricted Application added subscribers: Steinsplitter, Matanya, Aklapper. · View Herald TranscriptSep 4 2015, 6:39 PM

Hi the translation are updated by the translate extension if you mean translating mwembedmodules then that is also translated currently we are moving from using kaultra player to a more modern player.

Thank you for the update :)

TheDJ renamed this task from TimedMediaHandler translation should be integrated with the Translate extension to TimedText/Subtitle translation should be integrated with the Translate extension.Oct 21 2015, 8:58 PM
TheDJ set Security to None.
TheDJ moved this task from To sort to TimedText on the TimedMediaHandler board.Oct 25 2015, 1:42 PM
Elitre added a subscriber: Elitre.Jul 14 2016, 6:28 AM
Restricted Application added a subscriber: Poyekhali. · View Herald TranscriptJul 14 2016, 6:28 AM
Nikerabbit updated the task description. (Show Details)Sep 20 2016, 8:53 AM
Nikerabbit renamed this task from TimedText/Subtitle translation should be integrated with the Translate extension to Subtitle translation with Translate extension.Oct 7 2016, 7:57 AM
Nikerabbit added a project: Epic.

I re-purposed this bug to be an epic/tracker for subtitle translation support with Translate. One of the goals of Language-Team of this quarter is to implement a basic support: only translation of the text, no tweaking of times, and video preview only if it is easy and time permits.

Nikerabbit updated the task description. (Show Details)
TheDJ added a subscriber: TheDJ.Oct 31 2016, 12:26 PM

@Nikerabbit Please take note of T111651: Convert TimedText to make use of ContentHandler and the notes that brion has left there.

TheDJ added a comment.Oct 31 2016, 4:02 PM
  1. Do translators often tweak the timestamps?
  2. Do translators often combine/split/add/delete units compared to the source language?
  3. Do translators watch the video while or after translating?
  1. Sometimes yes, because in some languages lines might be a lot longer, requiring you to show a certain fragment longer than it was actually spoken
  2. For similar reasons as 1, yes they do. A good translator optimizes for consumption, not for literal translations. Because of that, sometimes the way a sentence is formed, requires you to move content into an earlier or later cue, or are much longer/shorter than in other languages and/or the original audio track.
  3. For subtitles usually it is advised to preview per 'cue', and it can be very useful to preview the video a few seconds before and after the cue as well.

I've always wondered if for authoring we would be able to plug back into amara.org again (formerly universal subtitles). They have a dedicated online editor for subtitles with many of these functionalities.

I've always wondered if for authoring we would be able to plug back into amara.org again (formerly universal subtitles). They have a dedicated online editor for subtitles with many of these functionalities.

For reference, we used to − see T64699

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Zack added a subscriber: Zack.Nov 18 2016, 10:15 PM

@Amire80 @Nikerabbit Hey! As developer summit is less than four weeks from now, we are working on a plan to incorporate the ‘unconference sessions’ that have been proposed so far and would be generated on the spot. Thus, could you confirm if you plan to facilitate this session at the summit? Also, if your answer is 'YES,' I would like to encourage you to update/ arrange the task description fields to appear in the following format:

Session title
Main topic
Type of activity
Description Move ‘The Problem,' ‘Expected Outcome,' ‘Current status of the discussion’ and ‘Links’ to this section
Proposed by Your name linked to your MediaWiki URL, or profile elsewhere on the internet
Preferred group size
Any supplies that you would need to run the session e.g. post-its
Interested attendees (sign up below)

  1. Add your name here

We will be reaching out to the summit participants next week asking them to express their interest in unconference sessions by signing up.

To maintain the consistency, please consider referring to the template of the following task description: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T149564.

Tgr awarded a token.Dec 23 2016, 2:45 AM

No progress was made on this during the developer summit. Based on discussions elsewhere, I feel there are concerns that the proposed simple solution would be too limiting compared to the existing method. That sounds like more work is needed to define a MVP and implement it.

I feel there are concerns that the proposed simple solution would be too limiting compared to the existing method

What was the proposed simple solution?

That sounds like more work is needed to define a MVP and implement it.

The MVP is:

  1. users are able to manually set a srt page up for translation;
  2. translation admins are able to mark it and the translation page is compatible with TimedMediaHandler (e.g. no translate tags, agreement on page titles);
  3. translators are able to translate the srt pages from Special:Translate and if they apply sufficient care the subtitles are used correctly (but if they don't something might break, e.g. if the timestamps get broken).
Nikerabbit removed Nikerabbit as the assignee of this task.Mar 29 2017, 12:53 PM
Glrx added a subscriber: Glrx.Jun 16 2017, 3:49 PM
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