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Fix alignment of coordinates and page indicators (Vector 2022)
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Description

NOTE: this must be fixed locally on wiki. The guidelines for doing that can be found at T281974#7109643

Description

As part of the desktop improvements project we moved the language switcher to the page titlebar (opposite the page title). This is the location that coordinates and page indicators were previously displayed. The purpose of this task is to share a design spec that describes where coordinates and page indicators should be displayed.

Design spec
image.png (1×2 px, 171 KB)
Examples of how coordinates and page indicatorsshould look on various wikis
image.png (1×2 px, 1 MB)
image.png (1×2 px, 1 MB)
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image.png (1×2 px, 2 MB)

Current issues

With the Vector 2022 skin, on some wikis the coordinates and/or page indicators overlap with each other and/or other content. Coordinates and page indicators are community-maintained templates, so fixing these issues requires collaboration between the WMF and template authors/editors/maintainers.

Examples
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 4.48.08 PM.png (504×1 px, 190 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 4.48.21 PM.png (430×2 px, 116 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 4.48.35 PM.png (344×2 px, 244 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 4.49.17 PM.png (468×1 px, 350 KB)
Screen Shot 2022-07-27 at 4.51.16 PM.png (526×2 px, 396 KB)
(please add more)

Related Objects

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes
Agzg added a subscriber: Agzg.

Right now there's a technical problem stopping it that I need to spend time looking at, and then I probably just have to bite the bullet. :^)

Anything I can help with @Izno to get this fixed on English Wikipedia ? We had a few more reports since.

The last time I deployed the indicator version I reverted because of two issues. One was expected (things still weren't lined up right, probably just a matter of deleting all the CSS) and one was unexpected: I broke the relevant Lua module which depended on the relevant ID existing somewhere in the page (at least, I think that was the gist of the error). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Module_talk:Coordinates#coordinsert_feature_broken.

I replied on the talk page with an idea, but would understand if you wouldn't want to approach it that way.

Expect other 800+ tasks with this issue. The problem with coordinates and indicators is again the lack of place in the design, even if those are community done elements, they are ubiquous and that's why there should be a proposal on where to put them.

Also many problems in the Catalan Wikipedia with our labels for featured articles or the coordinates.
I can only see a year from this thread and increasing issues and projects affected.

article Barcelona.png (807×1 px, 352 KB)

I see other issues at catalan Wikipedia, also related to featured ids.

irudia.png (633×1 px, 356 KB)

Also, in English with vector-2022, a line is created with the subtitle, and adds extra space above the barnstar (related? T311915):

irudia.png (473×1 px, 207 KB)

The same happens at dewiki, but with the coordinates somehow in the top:

irudia.png (384×1 px, 147 KB)

And this is the situation at itwiki:

irudia.png (477×1 px, 263 KB)

The featured content issue appears only in one mockup, exactly here:

irudia.png (675×1 px, 354 KB)

The reality is this one.

irudia.png (661×1 px, 394 KB)

@Theklan in the examples you provided do you know if they're using indicators or absolute positioning? Because most of the examples look like absolute positioning, and in eswiki I didn't see any problem since we changed the different modules and templates to use indicators...

If absolute positioning is used, is there any reason for not changing them to indicators as suggested in T281974#7109643? This solution should work regardless of the skin.

I don't know about each case. The Desktop-improvements team should. And, once noticed that this problem exists (one year ago), provide at least one optimal solution.

@Theklan disagreed. These are local modifications from the standard layout. They should be solved locally by the various communities. Assistance and instructions have been provided to assist them in this. But there is no magic solution for this, other then going to each wiki and telling them how to fix it.

Where can we search for the resolution of these "Assistance and instructions have been provided to assist them in this"? I may have missed them as a proper communication in our local technical Village pumps. Thank you.

@Theklan disagreed. These are local modifications from the standard layout.

Is there any "standard layout" where article related features AND coordinates are placed? I can't find that feature.

Just musing, here is a live page with the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iraq&oldid=1098751245&useskin=vector-2022 collision area highlighted.

As far as "standard layouts" go, I'm wondering if moving the meta-indicators would be a better fix here? Templates like coordinates are "content" related to the subject of the page; while template outputs like Featured Status, Protection Icons, etc are meta. Perhaps meta things shouldn't be down in the content area in vector-2022, and they should be moved out? Maybe left of the language bar?

image.png (158×429 px, 8 KB)

@Xaosflux, I really like your thought of separating content from meta things.

Regarding the meta things, I think for protection, that should be associated with the edit button, since the main question for most people related to protection is "can I, with my current permissions, edit this page"? Minerva Neue handles this quite well, where if you can edit the page, you get an edit button, and if not, it's grayed out or locked or something and explains why. There's a bit of value also for just letting readers know the protection level so that they can understand how vulnerable the article they're reading may be to vandalism, but that's secondary and I don't think requires a very prominent notifier.

For good/featured indicators, I've been advocating for a while that they should be moved to the end of the article title to make them more prominent. I touch on that a bit here with links to prior discussion.

Okay thanks. So I made a few adjustments and completed my edits.
Is this a suitable compromise (at least as a short term fix? )

Screen Shot 2022-01-27 at 9.53.29 AM.png (534×1 px, 323 KB)

I'm not active on euwiki but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. As a short term fix though, could work, but without a very clear definition and follow-up I'm afraid that "short term fix" will end up lasting for 5 years until someone figures out what happened and fixes it. So without a strict definition of "short term", I'd have to advise against any "short term fix".

alexhollender_WMF renamed this task from coordinates display is broken in the several Wikipedias with the new Vector language button position to Fix alignment of coordinates and page indicators.Jul 27 2022, 8:53 PM
alexhollender_WMF updated the task description. (Show Details)

In the mock up at the top, what is this symbol supposed to represent?

image.png (231×464 px, 29 KB)

alexhollender_WMF renamed this task from Fix alignment of coordinates and page indicators to Fix alignment of coordinates and page indicators (Vector 2022).Jul 27 2022, 9:02 PM

I think a "design spec" problem above is that "coordinates" are data (user generated content), not meta-data - why are they in the meta-data section?

In the mock up at the top, what is this symbol supposed to represent?

image.png (231×464 px, 29 KB)

that is the watch star, which adds (or removes) the page to (or from) your watchlist

I think a "design spec" problem above is that "coordinates" are data (user generated content), not meta-data - why are they in the meta-data section?

hmm, maybe there is a better term we could use aside from metadata? I wasn't sure what to call that stuff...

In the mock up at the top, what is this symbol supposed to represent?

image.png (231×464 px, 29 KB)

that is the watch star, which adds (or removes) the page to (or from) your watchlist

Thanks, in the example at the top (in English) it was missing - but that is probably a screen shot from a non-logged-in user that doesn't have the WL

I think a "design spec" problem above is that "coordinates" are data (user generated content), not meta-data - why are they in the meta-data section?

hmm, maybe there is a better term we could use aside from metadata? I wasn't sure what to call that stuff...

I think that is fairly accurate - most of that is things about the "page", not about the "subject of the page" - so it is metadata. Unlike "coordinates" which is content about the subject of a page that is.

@Xaosflux, I really like your thought of separating content from meta things.

Regarding the meta things, I think for protection, that should be associated with the edit button, since the main question for most people related to protection is "can I, with my current permissions, edit this page"? Minerva Neue handles this quite well, where if you can edit the page, you get an edit button, and if not, it's grayed out or locked or something and explains why. There's a bit of value also for just letting readers know the protection level so that they can understand how vulnerable the article they're reading may be to vandalism, but that's secondary and I don't think requires a very prominent notifier.

For good/featured indicators, I've been advocating for a while that they should be moved to the end of the article title to make them more prominent. I touch on that a bit here with links to prior discussion.

I understand from @Izno that the protection icon thing requires T12347.

I think a "design spec" problem above is that "coordinates" are data (user generated content), not meta-data - why are they in the meta-data section?

hmm, maybe there is a better term we could use aside from metadata? I wasn't sure what to call that stuff...

I think that is fairly accurate - most of that is things about the "page", not about the "subject of the page" - so it is metadata. Unlike "coordinates" which is content about the subject of a page that is.

@Xaosflux - that's a good point. Although I suppose that even though they're user generated, from the perspective of viewing the article it makes sense for them to appear together, coordinates can sort of be considered meta-data about an article that has a location, similar to how the star is meta-data about an article that has certain quality. It's not a perfect match - one is still related to the content of the article itself rather than the state of the article, but I feel like this is the argument that got them the positioning at the top of the page in the first place vs simply being shown in the infobox.

I'm fully with @Xaosflux here — the major distinction is things about the page vs. things about the topic, and coordinates are clearly about the topic, compared to protection icons/GA and FA stars/etc. which are about the page. One way to conceptualize it: If Wikipedia didn't exist, would this thing still be relevant? If so, it's about the topic, not the page.

I think it's okay to separate this somewhat new discussion of "should coordinates be considered metadata, and if not where should they be displayed?" from the initial discussion in this task about resolving the issues where coordinates and indicators are overlapping other contents. I realize it might seem silly to move coordinates twice, but I think it might simplify things to first move coordinates just below the page titlebar underline, into the page toolbar (which is like a ~10px move), and then start a separate discussion if people think there might be value in moving them even more.

(Hopefully not contradicting myself too much here by adding a note about the second discussion, which again I think can happen in a separate task — I think we should keep in mind that coordinates are, at least in most cases, redundant. They are shown at the top of the article, and within the Infobox. I think in order to have a good discussion about where to put them we should first collect data regarding clicks to the two different coordinates links).

I think we should keep in mind that coordinates are, at least in most cases, redundant. They are shown at the top of the article, and within the Infobox.

It depends on the wiki. On huwiki, for example, yes, there are hardly any coordinates not repeated in the infobox. On enwiki, in contrast, there are quite some. With naïve regexes:

(there are also a few body-only coordinates, but they’re irrelevant for us). There are certainly false positives and false negatives, but I hope the magnitude is correct. While technically true (more than the half), I wouldn’t call 60-65% “most cases”.

Just for clarification: the templates used to display coordinates or page related issues (featured, protected... whatever) are community mantained just because there's no better way to do this. There are some wikis that are struggling to show coordinates, or just have the modules and templates ready. It is community mantained, but it is not mandatory to assume that it will be like that in the future.

Wikidata, for example, has a native way of marking featured content, and this is automatically shown in the interwiki links. The same technology could be used to show a star (or whatever we decide that should be the default icon, and consistency here may be interesting) whenever we want. I think that just before the title is great, because it adds a very interesting information layer to the article title itself. Also the protection should be linked to the "Edit" button, and should be shown automatically. Currently, we don't have templates for showing that in most of the wikimedia projects.

Coordinates are something that could be just shown as in dewikivoyage, at the end of the title bar. Or below. Whatever it is better. But is the moment to think out of the box and make things happen for the better. Any change will have conflicts, but we have to think on all the wikimedia projects that will benefit, and not in the 5-10 wikiPedias that have technical people to do this stuff.

I suppose an overall design question is is: how much design should be specific to this data point that is only useful for projects with pages about geographical locations? From the examples above, "featured content" is quite generic and can represent the quality of any sort of page; indicators such as protection status are inherent to mediawiki pages; but "coordinates"? Not even "most" pages (2ish percent) on hosted Wikipedia's have a use for that, even if only looking at "encyclopedia articles" it's under 1/5th of pages.

As a reminder we have no coordinates in the mobile site (T91481) for more or less the same reason so hopefully any change has the benefit of fixing mobile.
Also related: T292617

Somehow, the solution given to floating elements in the left is broken: T317922

Coords on en.wiki appear to have moved up ever further, and are now overlapping the article toolbar:

image.png (121×356 px, 10 KB)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benin?useskin=vector-2022

The issue of coordinate location came up on the Vector2022 office hours today. I wasn't paying full attention to that particular discussion, but the gist was "absolute positioning is not a good thing" :-)

It certainly is not, I'd think that ideally as "coordinates" are content about the subject of an article (not meta-data about the page itself) they could possibly be targeted at the top of the "content area". These 'areas' didn't layout this way until v2022 so there is of course a collision there still.

(enwiki hack changed to -0.5em as immediate workaround)

Last change (the watchlist star) breaks (again) the alignment of ORES quality prediction at euwiki.

irudia.png (177×1 px, 27 KB)