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Make the affordance(s) for adding a new topic easier to identify and access
Open, Needs TriagePublic

Description

T304187 introduced a new Add Topic button within the new site-wide sticky header that appears on desktop.

This task involves the work of introducing an equally noticeable and accessible Add Topic button in cases where people do NOT have access to the new site-wide sticky header and the Add Topic button that now appears within it.

Examples of cases where people would NOT have access to the new site-wide sticky header and the Add Topic button that appears within it: desktop talk pages that are not "large enough" (be it b/c of the size of the person's browser window and/or the length of the discussion(s) on the page) for the site-wide sticky header to appear.

User stories

  • As a Senior Contributor or Junior Contributor who is arriving to a talk page knowing that they want to start a new discussion, I want to to be able to quickly and easily locate the affordance for doing so, so that I can proceed with drafting what I have in mind with minimal interruption.

Requirements

@ppelberg to finish completing.

Mockups

SkinAffordance DesignMockup
Legacy"Add topic" section at the bottom
Legacy_SectionBottom.png (4×2 px, 1 MB)
New VectorHeading "Add topic" button + section at the bottom (no LangSelect widget)
NewVector_Heading+SectionBottom.png (4×2 px, 1 MB)
New VectorHeading "Add topic" button + section at the bottom (with LangSelect widget)
NewVector_Heading+SectionBottom+LangSelec.png (4×2 px, 1 MB)
New Vector"Add topic" button in Sticky Header (view 1)
NewVector_Heading+SectionBottom-2.png (1×2 px, 685 KB)
New Vector"Add topic" button in Sticky Header (view 2: bottom section)
NewVector_Heading+SectionBottom-1.png (1×2 px, 470 KB)

Considerations

  • We should be mindful about changing the language and/or appearance of the existing New section / Add topic links for people who have the New Discussion Tool enabled considering the confusion/complexity this could cause. See: T264220#6813101.

Open questions

  • What language should appear on/in the affordance for starting a new discussion?

Done

  • Mockups are published in ===Mockups
  • Requirements are documented in ===Requirements
  • Requirements are implemented

i. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Vwqjpk7gsmy36h71
ii. https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg_Wikipedia:Overleghulpmiddelen&type=revision&diff=57279610&oldid=57277033&diffmode=source
iii. https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Vx0hv02fcic0rj62&topic_showPostId=vx0hv02fcma2zn4a#flow-post-vx0hv02fcma2zn4a
iv. https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:Vwpwr84naer42ovi&topic_showPostId=vx7brnglaeb6wm9p#flow-post-vx7brnglaeb6wm9p
v. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Vwszsesi9o4iguw1
vi. https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedie:Pod_l%C3%ADpou#Aktivace_n%C3%A1stroje_%E2%80%9EP%C5%99idat_t%C3%A9ma%E2%80%9C_pro_v%C5%A1echny)


Background

As @AdHuikeshoven, @Akoopal, @Awesome_Aasim, @Julle, @matej_suchanek, and @Vojtech.Vesely [i][ii][iii][iv][v][vi] have noted and previous usability tests have confirmed (T307845), the current "Add topic" / "New section" tab can be difficult for Junior Contributors to identify and all contributors to access, especially on longer pages.

Approaches

Below is a living list of approaches that have been talked about so far, on-wiki and in T249784:

InterventionLink
Additional links elsewhere on the page"Ajouter un sujet" (bottom of fr.wiki talk pages), + (bottom of some nl.wiki talk pages)
Large blue buttons at the top of the page with custom calls to action"Ask a question" (en.wiki), "New message" (cs.wiki), "Make a new request" (fr.wiki),
"New section" form is preloaded with a template/instructions"Request to administrators" (fr.wiki), "Request for immediate deletion" (fr.wiki), see T250768#6073965 for more examples
Links at the top of the page"Click here to ask a question" (nl.wiki), "Start a new topic" (~550 people are using this on en.wiki)
Instructions within new section form"You are going to request the immediate deletion..." (fr.wiki), "Instructions for discussion" (cs.wiki)
An omnipresent formF32249808
A button with an accompanying subject fieldSee the Požádat on this page at cs.wiki
An Add topic button at the bottom of the pageSee this page at fi.wiki
On Meta, the last section heading on a talk page has [ edit / Add topic ] instead of just [ edit ].https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Babel

Related Objects

Event Timeline

Adding a link to the user script @Awesome_Aasim has been using as part their workflow for adding new topics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Awesome_Aasim/newsection.js

This comment has been deleted.

Adding a link to the Add topic button present on some (?) pages at fi.wiki. See: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keskustelu:Yamaha_Aerox

Thanks @ppelberg - adding a screenshot :

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 9.38.50 AM.png (434×1 px, 126 KB)

On Meta, the last section heading on a talk page has [ edit | Add topic ] instead of just [ edit ].

On Meta, the last section heading on a talk page has [ edit | Add topic ] instead of just [ edit ].

Good call. Thank you for mentioning this, @Pelagic. I've added this to the task description's ===Approaches table.

ppelberg added a subscriber: Vojtech.Vesely.

Added a link to the comment @Vojtech.Vesely made at cs.wiki to the task description.

Aklapper added a subscriber: iamjessklein.

Removing inactive assignee. (Please reset assignees of open tasks when offboarding staff.)

Here is a mockup of what the page would look like (before scroll) with the Add Topic button:

Add topic button.png (1×2 px, 210 KB)

Here is what it could look like if we changed the words on the button to "Add discussion"

Add discussion button.png (1×2 px, 210 KB)

and that would also have to change in the sticky:

Sticky header.png (60×1 px, 7 KB)

Honestly, "Add discussion" is way more clear about what the button actually does than "Add topic". I'm pretty sure I was confused as a beginner what "Add topic" initially did until I tried it out once. Could probably run an A/B test on it.

[T]he "Add topic" button is […] replacing the Language widget from the Read section of the article

What if there are language links on a discussion page? In talk namespaces it’s quite rare if not nonexistent, but in project namespace it’s not that uncommon (e.g. en:Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)).

It’s also Vector-2022-only—it’s unclear from the description whether other skins are in scope (it states “where people do NOT have access to the new site-wide sticky header,” which includes other skins, but the examples section focuses on Vector-2022 only).

Thanks for your feedback @Tacsipacsi
I've added other iterations in the task description taking into consideration your points on legacy vector and the language selector on new vector. Would love to hear your thoughts on these too.

Looks good. One minor thing is that you left out the language selector + new topic in sticky header case, which actually already exists, but the buttons are just the other way round. I think you should align the third mockup with this, as it’d be confusing if the buttons switched place when one starts to scroll down.

Screenshot 2022-08-11 at 21-00-35 Wikipedia Village pump (miscellaneous) - Wikipedia.png (373×1 px, 139 KB)

Note: We'll be removing the language button from talk pages in T315555 which will make this easier.

Note: We'll be removing the language button from talk pages in T315555 which will make this easier.

Not really: there are multiple definitions for what a “talk page” is. T315555 should probably consider pages in odd-numbered namespaces as talk pages, since these are the pages that should not have interlanguage links; while this task should consider those pages as talk pages that currently have new section tab in their non-sticky header—which includes pages in even-numbered namespaces that contain the __NEWSECTIONLINK__ magic word (but it excludes pages in odd-numbered namespaces that contain the __NONEWSECTIONLINK__ magic word).