Remove classic edit toolbar from core
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Authored By
Krinkle, May 6 2011

Description

Move the 'classic' editor (<div id=toolbar> on EditPage and mediawiki.toolbar JS) out of MediaWiki core (potentially into an extension), leaving just a plain <textarea> in MediaWiki itself.

Details

Reference
bz28856

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gh87 added a subscriber: gh87.Sep 20 2017, 8:35 AM

Just in case, there is an old discussion of this year about the old toolbar, where some editors still use it. Well, I learned about the discussion after starting this one. Why not stall this task and ask the communities whether it should be removed completely from all projects or some of them?

Why not stall this task and ask the communities whether it should be removed completely from all projects or some of them?

Do you volunteer to become the maintainer for the code of the classic edit toolbar for the next years? :)

gh87 added a comment.Sep 20 2017, 11:07 PM

@Malyacko Oh... Um... I'm not a developer or a code programmer. Sorry. :(

Hi @Iniquity: It's stalled on T166601 at the moment. The team doesn't want the removal to break anything else. I hate to leave everyone hanging on tenterhooks, because once it's ready, we need to move promptly, but I doubt that anyone's going to disagree with that decision. 😉 Given the state of their other work, my guess is "not very soon".

@Whatamidoing-WMF thanks for your answer :) I hope you will be able to do it this year.

Legoktm updated the task description. (Show Details)Sep 23 2017, 8:21 PM

The title of this task is "Remove classic edit toolbar from core". Is that still accurate, or should this be "Remove classic edit toolbar from Wikimedia sites" (most of the discussion so far).

I think there is value in turning this into an extension to force us to build a reasonably pluggable toolbar system (WikiEditor vs ClassicToolbar). The code for the classic edit toolbar is pretty deeply entrenched into MediaWiki - it's built into our language support. Should we create a separate task for doing so?

Mostly I'd like to disentangle the discussion of "lets move this out of core" (something I fully support and can make progress on) and "lets stop using it on Wikimedia sites" (I have no opinion).

Hi @Iniquity: It's stalled on T166601 at the moment.

Fixed now. :)

Krinkle rescinded a token.Oct 1 2017, 8:33 PM
Krinkle added a subscriber: Krinkle.
Krinkle removed a subscriber: Krinkle.

Fixed now. :)

Thanks! :)

This work on removing the 2006 wikitext editor is currently blocked by T177098: Fix CodeMirror to not unconditionally try to use the 2006 toolbar (as that's being deleted). I have no information about how soon it could be resolved.

This is blocked by T88976: mw.toolbar.insertTags should be independent from mediawiki.toolbar module as (mw.toolbar is removed and) mw.toolbar.insertTags is used for the bottom edit tools (mw-editTools; which should not be removed!?).

OK I see now, not blocked, because subtask T166601 is already done.

James, is this ready to go? Are you ready to talk about testing schedules with @Arkanosis and any other interested volunteers?

stjn awarded a token.Apr 22 2018, 1:13 PM
demon moved this task from Backlog to Core on the MW-1.31-release board.Apr 26 2018, 8:56 PM

Removing MW-1.31-release, this just didn't happen in time :(

Jdforrester-WMF removed a project: MW-1.31-release.

Still waiting on Danny's decision. Re-assigning to make this clear.

DannyH removed DannyH as the assignee of this task.Jun 8 2018, 12:11 AM
DannyH added a subscriber: DannyH.

I give my blessing to remove the toolbar.

AS awarded a token.Jul 25 2018, 6:53 PM
AS added a subscriber: AS.EditedJul 25 2018, 7:36 PM

For users who use custom toolbar html is there an option not to render NewToolbar? I can see that it's only about +5kb of gzipped content, but it's still a big part of whole page.

is there an option not to render NewToolbar?

Yes. Switch to the 2003 wikitext editor, which contains no toolbar at all (or turn off Javascript). You can do this by disabling both "Show edit toolbar" and "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" Special:Preferences.

If you want a toolbar, then there is a reasonably complete list of options at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor

TheDJ added a comment.Jul 30 2018, 9:34 PM

I've rewritten the charinsert gadget to use it's own insertTags using jquery.textSelection, instead of mw.toolbar.insertTags

gh87 added a comment.EditedJul 30 2018, 10:57 PM

@TheDJ Can charinsert gadgets in other projects like Wikimedia Commons be also modified, or have they been already done?

TheDJ added a comment.Jul 31 2018, 8:33 AM

@TheDJ Can charinsert gadgets in other projects like Wikimedia Commons be also modified, or have they been already done?

I don't have global interface permissions, so other projects can copy if they want to, i just can't do it for them.

I don't have global interface permissions

@TheDJ, this sounds like a problem report. Do you want that to change?

@Arkanosis (and others), I think we're ready to talk about re-re-re-scheduling this. Do you have a preferred month (any time this calendar year)?

@Arkanosis (and others), I think we're ready to talk about re-re-re-scheduling this. Do you have a preferred month (any time this calendar year)?

@Whatamidoing-WMF : (just talking for myself) as long as there's a week or more to make sure we can get everything working, I think it should be fine. Anytime after the 8th of October would be even easier for me.

Perhelion added a comment.EditedAug 26 2018, 8:13 AM

PS: It is hard to find a documentation for mw.toolbar replacement for this absolutely core function. It is also very hard to understand why Krinkle himself propagated the use of mw.toolbar just few days before this deprecation warning. https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Manual_talk:Custom_edit_buttons&diff=2750733&oldid=2730331&diffmode=source

Not to say the documentation is still out-dated.
This is all is a bit annoying and leads volunteers to ignore any future deprecation warning.

Whatamidoing-WMF added a comment.EditedAug 28 2018, 7:16 PM

@Arkanosis (and others), I think we're ready to talk about re-re-re-scheduling this. Do you have a preferred month (any time this calendar year)?

@Whatamidoing-WMF : (just talking for myself) as long as there's a week or more to make sure we can get everything working, I think it should be fine. Anytime after the 8th of October would be even easier for me.

http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Server_switch ends on 10 October 2018. Maybe we could start this process the week after that? That would mean that it could go on the Beta Cluster on Tuesday, 16 October and deployed to the communities the following week (e.g., most Wikipedias on Thursday, 25 October).

(I think I can safely promise that it won't be before then.)

http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Server_switch ends on 10 October 2018. Maybe we could start this process the week after that? That would mean that it could go on the Beta Cluster on Tuesday, 16 October and deployed to the communities the following week (e.g., most Wikipedias on Thursday, 25 October).

That would be fine for me, thanks!

As a user of the 2006 editor,¹ I would like to echo what Legoktm asked more than a year ago on T30856#3629674, regarding removing from core vs removing from wikimedia sites (where I expect many people will be using it, some of them as an informed decision).

Personally, I would probably recreate it with javascript, but that's not an option for everyone.

¹ Basically, I find it works better for me than the alternatives. Both in features and time to load.

I understand that the main point is that WMF staff will not be supporting it any longer, and that a controlled removal makes more sense than waiting until it breaks and trying to make decisions during a crisis.

You are always free to create a user script that adds whatever toolbar you want for your own editing. @Platonides, if you're interested in doing that, then I recommend talking to @Arkanosis, since I believe that he already has some ideas about how to adapt a French Wikipedia gadget to do that. I would be very happy if the result was a single well-written, community-maintained script/gadget that was used by everyone who preferred it. I know that there are some editors at WikiProject Mathematics and at the Wikisources who personally prefer this toolbar, so I think it would be a valuable contribution to the movement.

@Johan I think that this wants to be in Tech News soon (#42 or #43). The main message is "The 2006 wikitext editor is no longer supported and will be removed from Special:Preferences". The project page is at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Contributors/Projects/Removal_of_the_2006_wikitext_editor

If it's mentioned in #43, then we might (if all goes well – we should know by the translation deadline) be able to add "A similar toolbar may be available to you as a volunteer-supported user script or gadget", with a link to the script(s).

Johan moved this task from Archive to To Triage on the User-notice board.Sat, Oct 13, 11:51 PM
TheDJ added a comment.Tue, Oct 16, 5:40 PM

P.S. for people that intend on copying this code from core, please note that it's likely GPL licensed, so you should add that license to that gadget/userscript and refer back to a git revision or something that you took it from.

I don't think this is ready for announcing yet - what I asked in T30856#3629674 is still unresolved. If we're going to tell people to just copy/fork the code into a gadget, we haven't really fixed the maintenance problem - we've just pushed it onto other people and given them less resources to do it well by moving it out of MediaWiki.

My proposal would be to split the toolbar into a separate extension, abstracting out toolbar support in core. If we can recruit maintainers (@Platonides maybe? :)) then the extension will continue to be deployed in Wikimedia production, subject to the standard code stewardship process. Otherwise it'll get dropped, but at least we've given people an opportunity to support this properly.

Uhh, is someone planning to work on this in that timeline?

Also other places. And last year. And, yes, everyone who has offered to help is ready to do their bit on the schedule that we agreed to two months ago.

@Legoktm, if you wish to file tasks for the two ideas you describe in that comment –

  1. Make a pluggable toolbar system.
  2. Turn this old toolbar into an extension.

– then you are welcome to do so.

Neither of those tasks need to block this work. My main reasons why these tasks should not block this work are:

  • Nobody wants to write that extension. The possibility of turning this into an extension has been discussed in multiple forums for at least the last two years, and nobody has shown any interest in writing the extension. If people were interested in doing that work, I assume that they would have said something by now.
  • The extension probably won't be used. I believe that any resulting extension will not be deployed on WMF wikis. It might be welcome on a few third-party wikis; however, this change was announced to third-party users more than a year ago, and I do not recall seeing even a single third-party user request for an extension to replace this toolbar. I'm certain that a user script will get used, but creating an extension might be a waste of your time.

Uhh, is someone planning to work on this in that timeline?

Yes.

Also other places. And last year. And, yes, everyone who has offered to help is ready to do their bit on the schedule that we agreed to two months ago.

Ack, I missed T30856#4539731 it seems.

@Legoktm, if you wish to file tasks for the two ideas you describe in that comment –

  1. Make a pluggable toolbar system.

T28918 ish, but the toolbar part is a smaller aspect.

  1. Turn this old toolbar into an extension.

That's this task. It's mentioned in the task description.

Neither of those tasks need to block this work. My main reasons why these tasks should not block this work are:

  • Nobody wants to write that extension. The possibility of turning this into an extension has been discussed in multiple forums for at least the last two years, and nobody has shown any interest in writing the extension. If people were interested in doing that work, I assume that they would have said something by now.

I did in T30856#3629674. I think there's significant value in refactoring it into an extension. But my questions were never answered, and still haven't been.

  • The extension probably won't be used. I believe that any resulting extension will not be deployed on WMF wikis. It might be welcome on a few third-party wikis; however, this change was announced to third-party users more than a year ago, and I do not recall seeing even a single third-party user request for an extension to replace this toolbar. I'm certain that a user script will get used, but creating an extension might be a waste of your time.

If there are active and willing maintainers, and users who want to use it, why wouldn't it be deployed to Wikimedia wikis? Anyways, my point is that I expect the maintenance required to keep a user script going higher than maintaining it as an extension.

Third party users commented directly in this ticket, see T30856#3335611 for example.

After this toolbar was removed MediaWiki core will come without any editing interface. An idea I do not really fancy. Isn't it time to merge WikiEditor into core now that it was stripped from unmaintainable code? Yeah, it is to easy to install and invoke WikiEdior but this is not my point.

Third party users commented directly in this ticket, see T30856#3335611 for example.

Oh, this was my own rant. Did not read this before I posted.

  1. Turn this old toolbar into an extension.

That's this task. It's mentioned in the task description.

No. "potentially" is a nice-to-have. If you want to do the work, that's fab, but it isn't part of this committed work.

Neither of those tasks need to block this work. My main reasons why these tasks should not block this work are:

  • Nobody wants to write that extension. The possibility of turning this into an extension has been discussed in multiple forums for at least the last two years, and nobody has shown any interest in writing the extension. If people were interested in doing that work, I assume that they would have said something by now.

I did in T30856#3629674. I think there's significant value in refactoring it into an extension. But my questions were never answered, and still haven't been.

Sorry, they seemed rhetorical? "Both".

After this toolbar was removed MediaWiki core will come without any editing interface. An idea I do not really fancy. Isn't it time to merge WikiEditor into core now that it was stripped from unmaintainable code? Yeah, it is to easy to install and invoke WikiEdior but this is not my point.

It's been shipped in the tarball for six(?) years now.

It's been shipped in the tarball for six(?) years now.

Yeah, it is to easy to install and invoke WikiEdior but this is not my point.

It's been shipped in the tarball for six(?) years now.

Yeah, it is to easy to install and invoke WikiEdior but this is not my point.

No, it's mine. It's installed and enabled by default.

Bye! To whatever you like. You do it anyways.

Kghbln removed a subscriber: Kghbln.Tue, Oct 16, 7:33 PM

@Whatamidoing-WMF : Hi! I've been willing to test the upcoming deployment to make sure that the gadgets currently used by many on the French Wikipedia still work if the classic edit toolbar is disabled. So, following the information on the page you linked to from my user talk page, I went today to the English Wikipedia on the beta cluster which is currently running 1.33.0-alpha (26665a6). Unfortunately, it looks like the classic edit toolbar has not been disabled there, so I'm unable to test the gadgets from the French Wikipedia as planned.

Has the removal plan changed in the meantime? Am I not testing on the right wiki?

Thanks!